I’ve realized more and more lately how much I appreciate being in a group
of people with whom I often disagree, notably my church. I tend to give a
hard time to people that have abandoned the church. I’m beginning to
figure out why it is so valuable to stay.
If I had left the church, or found a church where everyone was just like
me, where it was easy to be me and easy to be friendly and like people…what
would I accomplish?
I'm not sure why, but his comments and posts like these are just ticking me off! That's not necessarily a bad thing because it makes me process things a little more and look more at WHY I feel/think the way I do. But what does one mean by "abadoning the church"
...abandoning YOUR church?
And abandoning A church is much different from abandoning THE CHURCH.
Of course, my "abandonment" (which is not yet complete) includes an element of reaction. I'm reacting against the machinery and convolution of being on staff at a church that spends 90% of it's resources on staff and facilities and maybe 10% on mission and compassionate generous activity(that stat is fairly accurate for all 4 churches at which I've served). Now speaking of being reactionary, I suppose I could just react to my friend's blog as well (we really are friends!) but I'll resist the urge to do that by presenting a case for my exit from the church.
I've been listening to a couple of guys on the "God Journey" podcast who are having some good conversations on this topic. It's obvious that they've both exited what most of us would describe as conventional or traditional church. And they often speak of the unproductive "us" vs. "them" terminology and blame games which are commonplace in this arena of religious vs. relational approaches to God. Even describing the conflict as "religous vs. relational" creates a critical and defensive posture and attitude. Most conventional/traditional churches would argue that they believe in authentic relationship with God rather than religious obligatory spiritual behavior (pharisaical or legalistic). From my current perspective...which is kind of in between both worlds...I definitely see some very unhealthy sytemic, institutional, and religious dysfunction which has to be addressed. I will not further jeopardize my spiritual health or that of my family for the sake of loyalty and peacemaking.
My thoughts keep spinning off in many different directions which makes it very difficult to craft a sensical thesis here. And I won't deny that there's some defensiveness and reaction in my heart as well as my blog. But I honestly believe you can abandon a church without abandoning THE Church.
3 comments:
What's up dude!? I don't intend to offend but I wanted to let you know about my new love for Caribou...you know how little I know about coffee, but their customer service is great! Anyway, I think it's so hard for people, including myself to seperate systems from individuals. In other words, I know you're offended by the church system spending 90% of resources on buildings and insignificant things and only 10% on missions. Question: our you equally offended by individuals that handle finances in such ways? Do you do it differently in your own personal finances? I sure don't... It's tough to drill the system, without looking at myself first. And I think this same concept can be applied to lots of other areas that people like to rip the system for... Or am I way off? To wipe out a church like BCN as a system that is heading in the wrong direction of Kingdom life, is to wipe out individuals within that system that are some of the godliest people I know. It's like Tony Campolo last week at MVNU saying that working with poor and oppressed (and the best I can tell he is talking about physical poverty, I could be wrong) isn't just a Christian agenda, it's THE only Christian agenda, and those of us who are supposed to be followers of Christ and aren't working for this agenda, we will be held accountable in the end. So if this is true, this says that a lot of people I respect (Rick Ryding, N.T. Wright, Dallas Willard) will be held accountable for not being true followers of Christ.
If none of this make sense I blame it on the valium and vicatin I'm on from yesterday reconstructive shoulder surgery! Be careful at Gold's....I might need you to be my trainer here in about 6 months. Peace Brother!
I'm glad my post made you angry, but hopefully only for a short time. I hope we can see each other soon. I'm in cincy 3 or 4 times a week right now.
You are right. I should have used better language about the church. But I was right to say that I am upset when people abandon the denomination I am a part of for greener pastures.
Chris, you know I struggle with every aspect of it you do. I'm not as intimately involved as you, but my wife is on staff and it gives me some perspective.
And I often do want to give up and leave. The most spiritual times I've had have been outside of the nazarene church save a few instances.
But I am learning so much about what it means to be a follower in the midst of those I can't share meaning or thoughts with.
We should talk about this in person.
email me.
As I read Brandon's blog and Chris' response I found myself wondering where I fit on this continuum that you have presented (i.e. Redeeming vs. Abandoning perhaps?).
I have appreciated being a part of a "group of people with whom I often disagree" for the past 5+ years, but it has also been draining. What I have found is that they draining element was not the people, but the other staff and the expectations of what questions could or could not be asked, and what issues could or could not be raised. I loved the people of my church family, and felt that we could not choose to leave them (and perhaps would not have for quite some time, even a few years), but the freedom we now feel is a constant confirmation that we were faithful until our time there was complete. The finances of our church encouraged Kelly and I to take this leap now rather than later, but even if they weren't an influence the leap was needed. We do not see it as abandoning them because they are still our friends, our family, our extended body of Christ. We realize our presence has brought that community of believers to very new places, our questions have become their questions. Our crises of ecclesiology their crises of ecclesiology. Our refreshed understanding of being a disciple, theirs as well. We have received from them and given to them and we are both the better for it.
We remain Nazarenes, althought we don't have a "home church". We remain apart of this tribe because we believe there is hope. We believe there is an acknowledged need to discover new wineskins. We believe there is a hesitant desire to birth new communities that do not replicate the old, but are a fresh discovery of a new way of "doing church". We believe there is value in our spiritual heritage and theology, much of which we have lost through poor practice and the desire to be all things to all people. So, we have choosen to leave our place or worship, but not abandon our tribe.
We plan to travel, to spread the Word, to encourage deeper community, to redefine the life of a disciple, to re-examine loving our neighbor. We aim not to replace the old wineskins, but to help our people discover new ones and to help repair those that are broken if needed.
To Chris, leaving a church is not abandoning The Church. Leaving a denomination is not abandoing The Church. Why remain a part of this tribe? You must discover what it is that you value here, and if it is worth the sacrifice it takes to remain. And then, if you choose to remain, you must discover your role within the tribe.
Jim Wallis is speaking in Bluffton (south of me) next Wednesday night. You should come up to hear him if you are free. Peace.
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