That could be for two reasons...one of which might be good. The potentially good theory on the absence of these conversations is that leaders who are serving from within the Church of the Nazarene don't feel the need to have their own denominationally-centered online meeting spaces.
The second reason I suspect however is just the lack of young Naz leaders, pastors, and theologians who are even entering this arena of controversy and ideas.
One of the sites I have stumbled upon and would recommend any like-minded individuals to check out would be this one...
Again though, I'm disappointed that so few are engaging in this dialogue. And many of the sites are months or even years out of date. When I'm looking for some fresh conversation and discussion...a blog that hasn't been posted on in 30 days or more is almost always cast into the trash bin of forgetfulness!
Anyway, what prompted this post in the first place was a little dialogue I entered into at the site above in which 'Kingdom of God' language was being paralleled with 'entire sanctification' rhetoric. As I stated in one of my comments (even as a 5th generation Nazarene), I discern an unhealthy effort by Nazarenes to defend the "distinctiveness" of our theology and doctrine. From what I heard, M7 was a grand attempt to rally the holiness troops and wage the war of doctrinal defense. In a time when the global slave trade is rampant, hunger kills, AIDS decimates, and clean drinking water is scarce...some of our leaders want to focus on Calvinism, the Emergent Church, and Reformed theology!
That is laughable (at first...then it's actually pathetic).
And the 'Kingdom of God' is bigger than our doctrine of 'entire sanctification' which is often reduced to a personal experience of holiness with God which still tends to be more about the 'kingdom of me being right.'
6 comments:
it stirred my heart to read what god is stirring in you.
blessings,
rob
Chris,
Thanks for the recommendation of our blog. I regret that it is not updated as much as I would like for it to be. Between my full time job at a homeless shelter and Pastoring a young church plant I don’t have as much time to post on my blogs as I would like too. I am in the midst of the book Everything Must Change by McLaren and plan on posting about this on Emergent Nazarenes soon; if someone else doesn’t beat me to it. I think this book speaks to a lot of what we are talking about.
I just responded to a few of your comments on Emergent Nazarenes and I thought I would share them here too.
Chris commented on Emergent Nazarenes, “Hasn't "entire sanctification" been typically applied as a descriptor for personal holiness language...like the sequel of 'personal salvation' which de-emphasizes the more communal implications of "Kingdom of God" language and theology?”
I agree 100% that this has been the typical lens of holiness for much of our history, though I am most encouraged by our earliest history when we also saw holiness as serving the poor. Over all though I believe our exclusive view of holiness that over emphasizes it as just personal piety has been toxic to the gospel and even holiness itself. It is extremely ironic that in many cases we could twist holiness to become such a selfish thing.
Chris commented on Emergent Nazarenes, “Theological "distinctiveness" has become an idol for the Church of the Nazarene. We desire distinction because we are trying to prove that we are important or valuable.”
I think this is true for those who treat holiness like our exclusive trademark. The only “distinctive” I want is the same I wish for the whole church- that is that the church will be seen as the continued incarnational presence of Christ in the world as we live out the gospel by feeding the hungry, healing the sick, and welcoming the stranger.
Chris wrote, “But I think it's simpler, and ecumenically more fruitful, to concentrate on what is 'literally' in the Bible (I know...that's an interesting way to put it). But we can teach, blog, share, & live 'entire sanctification' without ever using that extra-biblical vocabulary. And I think it's more than just mere semantics. I think there's an unhealthy root motivator for Nazarenes to own this language and theology.”
I agree that the language and terminology of “entire sanctification” is unhealthy, I think I just called it “toxic” a moment ago. The only time I talk about “entire sanctification” by name is with other Nazarenes but in the community I pastor this is not terminology I use; the biggest reason I avoid it is because I think it can come across as promoting a “selfish holiness.”
What I fond interesting about David’s original post is not so much that I think he is trying to squeeze the “Kingdom of God” into the Nazarene box of “entire sanctification”, but rather I think he was actually looking to free it. I kind of took it like he was looking at our tradition and our doctrine of entire sanctification and recognizing that the message of the Kingdom of God is where our Nazarene grandparents may have been trying to get to and live out. Granted I think the terminology they used may have also gotten them off track (particularly as they became obsessed with it) but I think the point is that the Kingdom of God is far larger than our terminology; especially when we reduce it to just individual experiences. I think David’s post acknowledges this and is trying to move Nazarenes out of the box their “distinctives” put them in.
So I definitely agree with you that “the 'Kingdom of God' is bigger than our doctrine of 'entire sanctification' which is often reduced to a personal experience of holiness with God which still tends to be more about the 'kingdom of me being right.'” I also think if we want to really talk about holiness and the Kingdom of God we need to talk about- then start doing more about the things you mentioned like "global slave trade, hunger, AIDS, and providing clean drinking water”.
Thanks for the comments, dialog and the plug for our Emergent Nazarenes.
Peace,
James
Chris, the kinds of arguments you describe in the Nazarene church are common in all the denominations of which I am aware. There is a spirit of division in the church at large that directly counters Christ' command for unity.
As long as we define ourselves in terms of our differences we will fail to nurture our commonality.
Chris,
I thought this posting reflected some of my own thinking on emergent Nazarenes, of which there are not many of. Anyway, I am frustrated beyond words with the Church of the Nazarene on some of these issues. Tom Oord, NNU faculty is working tirelessly to change our doctrinal statements. But I almost think battle will go unnoticed. It's the local Church that needs to change, and won't. We are so wedded to modernity, it will take an act of God to break us free.
Right now, I am not in a Nazarene Church, I'm Foursquare. How's that for stretch? But I feel as you do that the Kingdom of God is bigger than our distinctives. Although, Foursquare Churches are having some very similiar challenges though. They are not as heavy handed with structure and centralized power.
As for James' comments on Brian McClaren. I am not a big Brian fan. Brian is embracing liberation theology, which has not produced much fruit. (Jim Wallis, sojourners, etc). I believe our message need to be salvific and not just a cry for justice. Len Sweet and Brian McClaren have had some big and very public disputes over this very issue. I stand with Len and his desire to not just change the world, but change people's eternities. Anyway, the conversation has revealed some big issues the emergent Church must face.
B.T.W. I just got done readying Joe Myers book. Great book, loved it. Especially his emphasis on how small groups form and decentralized power. Many of our Churches still operate with a 'top down' mentality with regard to small groups. That's dangerous! And it just doesn't work.
This is a good, keep it going
"From what I heard, M7 was a grand attempt to rally the holiness troops and wage the war of doctrinal defense"
Hey, Chris, just found your blog. Did you go to M7? I was there, and your quote from above wasn't my experience at all. I was encouraged by the open dialogue between the emerging perspective and more "traditional Nazarenedom." The guys from Jacob's Well even did services there. Granted, the wheels of change turn slowly, but I didn't sense a "come back to Nazarenedom" plea. Of course, I skipped some of the plenary sessions, so I might have missed something there.
I just left the Cincinnati area a couple years ago, BTW--I hope all's well.
Chris,
Very thoughtful. It is good to see other nazarenes are looking to stretch their faith.
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